Taken from McKaig’s journal-
This is my recent letter to Outburn magazine, in response to a question that was asked of Dave Peters of Throwdown in their recent interview in the July issue:
To Shawn Macomber:
When you asked Throwdown a question concerning “gangs of hard-line straight edge kids in Syracuse and Salt Lake City were beating up people for smoking and setting fire to McDonald’s restaurants†I’m concerned about where you get your information from. What Syracuse straight edge kids did these things? What specifically are you talking about? Who, supposedly, were the victims of these attacks? As the primary promoter of hardcore shows in Syracuse during the time that these things supposedly happened, I never witnessed nor heard of one single incident remotely relating to what you describe. Because, primarily, of the lyrics of several Earth Crisis songs (taken out of context and exaggerated), and also because of the perpetual hardcore rumor mill, actions such as those that you describe were assigned to our scene, without any of it actually happening. The members of Earth Crisis, Path of Resistance and other long-term members of the Syracuse hardcore scene never sanctioned or participated in such actions, and encouraged only constructive dialogue and compassionate action on the part of any who described themselves as “straight-edge†or “vegan†who were members of our scene. I’m surprised that the rumors concerning the Syracuse hardcore scene perpetuate to this day, due to the contribution of people such as yourself through questions asked during an interview of a band not even in existence when these things supposedly happened.
So, to hopefully put it to rest, finally … There were no “gangs of hard-line straight edge kids†attacking people because they weren’t straight edge (or, for that matter, for any other reason), there were no McDonald’s restaurants set on fire, there were ABSOLUTELY NO FIGHTS at hardcore shows in Syracuse during the whole time I was doing shows there through most of the ‘90’s (how many scenes can you say that about?). I guard the reputation of what I and many other like-minded people in Syracuse accomplished during that time jealously, and I take issue with the perpetuation of malicious rumors based on … nothing. Ask any band (straight edge or not) that played those shows, ask any participant, ask any promoter who was at an all ages hardcore show in Syracuse about the Syracuse scene during that time, they will tell you the same thing. Everyone (again, straight-edge, vegan … or neither) was treated with respect at our scene, and I wouldn’t have had it any other way.
John McKaig
jmmckaig@hotmail.com
nice work, mckaig.
who fucking cares if someone thinks hardline kids in syracuse or salt lake city beat people up years ago? if it happened, then that’s lame, and if it didn’t happen, well then, who cares? are these “rumors” ruining straight edges’ great reputation? i doubt it. straight edges’ reputation is pretty much what it is, and sxe themselves has little chance of changing that. and is throwdown going to shed light on a situation they weren’t privy to? it’s a dumb question, and i’m sure the answer (although i don’t know throwdown’s response) was equally as banal.
the thing is, syracuse fed off the reputation of being this sxe mecca in the mid early ninties, and any press was good press right? people bought those records, and went to see those bands play based on that reputation. but just like clevland had done previous, the (false?) reputation that syracuse had of being this place were sxe kids were enacting a strict no tolerance policy on those who disagreed with them (let the round-ups begin?) wasn’t anything they were ashamed of at the time. far from it, i contend they promoted the mytholgy. i mean, who’s better at self-promotion than hardcore kids, and who doesn’t want to be a part of this “fabled scene” that everyone’s talking about? cleveland people themselves used to spread these outlandish tales of violence at ringworm shows, or dwid cutting off a corpes’ ear and waking tony erba up by putting it on his face, and guess what? people loved it. people bought fanzines or records just because they said “clevo” on them, or they were recorded at mars studio. cleveland won. and i contend syracuse did the same. in the wake of the negative reviews earth crisis got from maximum rocknroll and others like that, the syracuse scene seemed to backlash against the “punk hippies” or whatever by perpetuating this myth that their scene was everything the earth crisis lyrics espoused. and people ate that shit up too. hardcore kids buy the hype, they always have and always will.
the bottom line to all of it is, who cares if someone is dredging up old syracuse rumors? shit, it might actually get people stoked on syracuse again. maybe someone will be able to sell that old solstice 7″ on ebay (any takers?). i seriously doubt it’s going to cause roving gangs of hardline warriors taking to the streets of syracuse or salt lake city to “curse the fucking traitors” (oh wait, that’s a south carolina reference). it’s just hype, and it’s harmless.
i met john mckaig one time many years ago, and he was a super nice guy, very hospitable, so i have nothing bad to say about him, but i just question the point of rehashing early ninties scene drama that was just as pointless back then.
a firestorm to purify indeed.
Wow, I don’t whole heartedly agree, but a good point. It is always a shame when rumors define a past. Atlanta was always victim to it, no matter were we went, people would be like “oh you’re from Atlanta, you beat up Christians and sell fake drugs to people and then beat them up when they buy them”, sadly this never happened. Now when ever Straight Edge has been in the media (and it usually revovled around Salt Lake and sometimes Syracuse) it’s usually to try and make us look like clowns (which we can do on our own fairly well sometimes) or terrorsts and my response has always been “we’ll at least it doesn’t paint us a boy scouts”
But here we stand almost 10 years after the fact, and neither OUTBURN (a primarily electronic music magazine that started to cover “hardcore” a couple of years ago when HEADBANGER’s BALL started showing pretty much core videos) or THROWDOWN are from Syracuse or had anything to do with that time and place in history. I say let history be defined by those that were there. McKaig was there long before and long after CNN rolled into town and I applaud him for defending what her worked so hard for and keeping these shot attempts to recall the past with rumors and message board fairy tails from yester year from being called journalism. I would do the same for Atlanta… as you would for the Carolinas and the New Start Posse
Red Dragons, anyone?
but my main point isn’t that john mckaig shouldn’t defend his hometown scene (jesus, i feel queer just typing that), but that the scene wasn’t all that innocent to begin with.
you were around in those days, and you know the cyclical nature of the hardcore scene and how every so often a geographic scene becomes vogue, and for awhile people emulate that scene. it happened in nyc, boston, cleveland, syracuse, santa barbara, san diego, and so on, and so on. so when it was syracuse’s turn at the top of the heap, they made the most of it, by playing up the role that (unfortunately) earth crisis had laid out for them. i say unfortunately, because i don’t think earth crisis were the most articulate or diplomatic messangers hardcore ever had. but that’s beside the point anyway. earth crisis can say whatever they want, and if people are stoked on it, and supporting that band, more power to them. but, you have to admit the bands that came after them, the “lost horizons” bands if you will, just sort of towed the company line. and that’s why the rumors persist.
my other point was simply, who cares? if anyone came to trash the atlanta scene, i suppose you’re instinct would be to jump to it’s defense. but are you doing so because that scene was so great, or because it was YOUR scene? same goes for me and the mother fucking new start posse (which coincidentally, guav designed the new start logo…syracuse connection). it’s not like w-s was the fucking tits, but it was MY scene. hell, insted played to literally five people there (and someone fucking stagedived), how lame is that? the scene was lame. scenes are lame, but it’s your friends so you jump to there defense. but when rob-r-rock was ripping people off with his mailorder, i didn’t defend him, i was pissed (not as pissed as when he fucked my girlfriend…but pissed nonetheless).
and a quick sidebar: never refer to it as “the carolinas”. north carolina is a far superior place on the planet to trashy ass south carolina. believe it. corrosion of conformity wasn’t a product of south carolina.
anyway, mckaig can defend his hometown all he wants, it’s his deal, but i think it’s pointless, especially since that shit was ten years ago. sure, it stings a bit to hear revisionist history from peeps who weren’t around, and most likely weren’t listening to the bands that made up the scene in question at the time, but do you think outburn magazine is going to print a retraction, or change their editorial policies over this? do you think joe hardcore in indiana is going to read mckaig’s letter and decide that all of hardcore is redemed because a few meatheads in syracuse didn’t actually beat anybody up, or do you think he’s going to realize that hardcore is just as gossipy and trite as the any other subculture.
know what i mean?
maybe i’m just pissed because i never thought the syracuse bands were any good to begin with. that’s probably it.
The reason I brought it up was because THEY brought it up, and made it an issue. I have no intention of rehashing old rumors about Syracuse, except when they are still being put out there AS IF THEY WERE TRUE, and because those rumors reflect on me personally and my reputation.
MY REPUTATION IS MY ONLY ASSET!
Plus, when you mention that Syracuse “promoted the mythology”, again, just like I questioned Outburn – WHAT? WHAT THE FUCK ARE YOU TALKING ABOUT? What, specifically, did I or anyone of a handful of people who kept that scene going for almost 8 years do to promote a “mythology” that Syracuse straight edge kids were fighting people who weren’t straight edge, or that we were burning down fast-food restaurants or any of that shit. You say “who gives a shit” about what happened in Syracuse ten years ago, but you’re the one righting two long comments in Jawk’s journal and, again, rehashing old rumors without anything specific to back it up.
– McKaig
i’m an idiot. fuck.
alright, whatever…you are obviously way too caught up in “syracuse pride” and other childish bullshit (which is fucking strange because aren’t you like 40 years old by now?). i mean, seriously dude, “my reputation is my only asset”? spare me the fucking drama. i thought your cache of assests also included your homoerotic photos of sweaty dudes jumping on top of other sweaty dudes…oh yeah, and those nude shots of various hardcore illuminati (classy.). don’t you have a life outside of “the syracuse scene”? and if not, you might want to look into one.
i wasn’t taking shots at you or anyone personally before, but goddamn, it’s pathetic reading this trite back-and-forth schoolgirl gossip. let it go. i’m sure “the scene” will survive, and i’m sure syracuse will continue to churn out sxe kids and bands that you can bolster your “reputation” for the rest of your life.
and by the way, since you take all of this so personally, did outburn magazine or throwdown even mention you by name? if they did, well then i would totally understand your frustration, but if they didn’t, and i imagine they didn’t, well then, again, who cares?
have fun living in syracuse circa 1992, i’m sure it’s a wonderful place.
Money phrase:
“maybe i’m just pissed because i never thought the syracuse bands were any good to begin with. that’s probably it.”
Just let it go, you’re coming off like a jealous little prick.
yeah, you caught me.
i implicated myself this time. good detective work sherlock.
who wouldn’t be jealous of the the ‘cuse?
but seriously, how did you know about my little prick? do you know me or something?
but you’re the one righting two long comments in Jawk’s journal and, again, rehashing old rumors without anything specific to back it up.
It’s “writing”. For some reason it really bothered me and I had to point it out. This conversaton has made me laugh so hard thanks gray and mackaig (eventhough I don’t think you were tryng to be funny, but really I guess that’s the funniest part)
trying
that was fast, you must have been poised and ready at the keyboard.
look, my original response was aimed at Jeff, seeing as how this is his blog and everything. and yes, i was adding fuel to the fire of some old rumors, but it was never the rumors that bothered me, nor the spreading of rumors. those things happen, and they are beyond your control (for the most part), rumors are funny, and rumors are as just as integral to this subculture as the music itself. you’re lying if you say you don’t enjoy hearing a nice, juicy story about some hardcore dude…admit it. it’s a sport, and i find it quite entertaining. it was the impassioned response to rumors from 10 years ago that i take issue with. if they bother you so much, why give them any credence by responding to them? you know the truth, and if those rumors aren’t directly harming you or your loved ones (and spare me the fucking reputation bullshit), then let them die.
anyway, i was just letting jeff know that i thought it funny that on his blog he was posting this response to age old rumors with a sort of “take that” attitude. it was a jab at jeff, and then it turned into a jab at mckaig, and after that who knows…i’ll jab anybody…it’s fun.
and you know what i like about jeff? jeff has a sense of humor, and most importantly he can laugh at himself. jeff understands that there is an undercurrent of absurdity to this whole thing, and that is why i chose to respond to his initial posting. i don’t want to speak for jeff, but i get a feeling he understands.
for anyone else reading this, sorry if you don’t get it. maybe try pulling your head out of the sand every once in awhile and realize there’s a world outside of XhardcoreX. seriously…there is. it’s got girls and politics and jobs, and everything. look into it.
i look forward to commenting on any additional bric-a-brac that jeff posts on his blog.
ta.
If you are 40 years old and still standing up for “hardcore” your really wasting your time. Hardcore stands for nothing but bad haircuts and neck tattoos at this point to most of the gems that choose to align themselves with the “scene.” Outburn magazine is a fucking joke, Syracuse hardcore is a fucking joke, unfortunately real life isnt.
Anonymous post are also a Joke…
I do have a bad haircut and neck tattoos though.
christ almighty jeff, you’re already 40?!
Man I cant believe gray said S.C. was trashy! I take offense at that! Rob -R-Rock ripped me off for some shitty line drive 7″s and I was personally in Syracuse at numerous Earth Crisis shows where Karl punched me in the face for eating a hamburger, but we were friends so it was all cool